And just as predicted...
Marsh Accepts Position With USOC, Will Leave Auburn After Season; Richard Quick to Serve as Advisor
If you haven't been following the debate below over the new Super Club this announcement isn't a big surprise - Timed Finals let the cat out of the bag a few days ago. The issue is, what will it mean for our National Team swimmers? And why Marsh? While he's had great success with NCAA Championships, as lala mentioned below, a great deal of that success can be credited to good recruiting and a great diving team. Eric Shanteau and Hayley Peirsol had their breakout performances after leaving Auburn to train with Texas and Michigan for the summer. Can Marsh develop swimmers or is he just good at recruiting talent? Will National Team members be required to train at this new facility under the direction of Marsh in the future? I guess I still just don't understand exactly what USA Swimming is attempting to do with this new club structure.
ETA: USOC and USA Swimming Weigh In on Marsh Hire
AUBURN head coach David Marsh will resign at the end of the 2006-07 season to accept a position with the Mecklenburg Aquatic Club. The club will establish the United States Olympic Committee Center of Excellence, in Charlotte, N.C., as SwimmingWorldMagazine.com foretold in an earlier report.
In his new role, Marsh will serve as the Head Elite Coach and CEO of the program, directing the development of future United States' Olympic swimmers.
"This is a unique, first-ever position that was created by the United States Olympic Committee, USA Swimming and the Mecklenburg Aquatic Club and is a outstanding opportunity for me to assist in the development of future American Olympians," Marsh said. "I am an Auburn man and it will be extremely difficult to leave the department, university and community, however, I feel this decision was made at this time in the best interest of my family as well as my career. Jay Jacobs has the department headed in the right direction and is committed to maintaining the level of excellence of the swimming and diving program. I will cherish this season as we compete for two more National Championships in 2007."
If you haven't been following the debate below over the new Super Club this announcement isn't a big surprise - Timed Finals let the cat out of the bag a few days ago. The issue is, what will it mean for our National Team swimmers? And why Marsh? While he's had great success with NCAA Championships, as lala mentioned below, a great deal of that success can be credited to good recruiting and a great diving team. Eric Shanteau and Hayley Peirsol had their breakout performances after leaving Auburn to train with Texas and Michigan for the summer. Can Marsh develop swimmers or is he just good at recruiting talent? Will National Team members be required to train at this new facility under the direction of Marsh in the future? I guess I still just don't understand exactly what USA Swimming is attempting to do with this new club structure.
ETA: USOC and USA Swimming Weigh In on Marsh Hire
"The USOC has recognized a fantastic opportunity to help change the business model for club swimming in America," said Steve Roush, chief of sport performance at the USOC. "We know that building 'centers of excellence,' around the country, which provide the opportunity for elite post-graduate athletes to come together and train, is an extremely productive model. With such a successful coach at the helm, Mecklenburg Aquatic Club can provide that environment for America's swimmers and we are confident that Team USA will reap the rewards at the 2008 Olympics and beyond."
With the addition of Marsh to the Mecklenburg coaching staff, the club expects an influx of post-graduate talent, which has become increasingly visible on National Team rosters in recent years. At the 2006 Pan Pacific Championships, Team USA finished first in the medal count on the backs of 19 individual medalists who were post-graduate or professional athletes. In addition, all but four athletes on the roster of the U.S. Men's National Team headed to the 2007 FINA World Championships are post-graduate or professional swimmers.
"The hiring of David Marsh by a USA Swimming member club represents the changing nature of competitive swimming," said Mark Schubert, National Team head coach and general manager for USA Swimming. "More and more swimmers are continuing to compete after their collegiate careers, and many are giving up their eligibility in order to swim professionally. These swimmers need an elite program with which to train. These factors, along with more financial resources coming into the sport, have made the club level more important than ever to our future Olympic success."
posted by Michelle at
10/19/2006 01:02:00 AM
27 Comments:
Hmm....interesting.
I'm with you Michelle, I still don't get the big picture.
By
Gina, at 10/19/2006 6:14 AM
I should probably not say this but again...I am gonna. Dave Marsh's quote I found very interesting, 'assist in the development of future American Olympians'. Now isn't that interesting? American being the operative word here. Is he not the coach that recruited the most athletes from other countries? Those coming to this country to obtain a higher education I have no issue with, however, I question athletes from other countries being trained in the US only to compete against the US in an International meet. How can that ahtlete actually represent their country when they train in the US, obtain their education in the US, live in the US yet are representing another country? Wouldnt you consider this athlete to be a product of the US rather than their own country? Just another point which may spark a debate. While I can see this producing more in the way of competition, I am not sure which country this athlete would truly represent.
This state of the art facitilty sounds interesting and a concept most coaches would probably want to utilize at some point. Think of how they could perfect a swimmers stroke, their turns, their starts etc. It would improve the mechanics of the athletes stroke and/or race but I do not believe it would ever replace the substance a coach...a really good coach....brings to an athelete....no equipment can replace the 'human' factor. I would like to see them take this technology a step further. Imagine this: at an Internation meet, monitors are set up in each lane, an official is behind the monitor watching everything (instead of walking up and down the side of the pool calling nothing). They would catch a lot of infrations with those monitors (as an example, relay starts, high elbows, double dolphin kicks etc).
By
Aunt K, at 10/19/2006 7:46 AM
BUMMER!
USASwimming never lets me down! Such a bad, bad choice!
Wish they had asked Eddie Reese, now there is a coach that can develope!
Most of the swimmers that David Marsh recruited, Kathy, stayed at Aurburn for 1 semester. January to May. Can you guess why?
Here is a story....
I watched this man (Dave) come up to us in the stands, sit behind us, turning his back on one of his own swimmers. Shocked, I said to him..."Aren't you going to look at your swimmer racing?" His reply...."No, he will never get any better". Want to know who the swimmer was at the time? Dave Dennison. It was Spring Nationals 1999 and he was starting to recruit Bren.
As Forrest Gumps says....." And thats all I have to say about that!
By
Mrs. H, at 10/19/2006 8:56 AM
Kathy raises a great question. If the USOC funds this facility and USA Swimming contributes a lot of the intangibles, who would bankroll the foreign swimmers that Marsh will inevitably want to bring in? Let's say hypothetically that Fred Bousquet wanted to train at this facility for a month ... would he pay tuition? Would USOC wind up indirectly funding other country's Olympians while some of ours (who aren't as lucky with sponsorships) eat macaroni and cheese?
By
Dana Cara, at 10/19/2006 9:39 AM
I would just like to say that sometimes David Marsh may go a little too far in recruiting international swimmers (especially when the swimmers come from countries with already outstanding athletic programs like Australia) but in a lot of cases it is in the best interest of the swimmer. Coming from the Caribbean our governments cannot afford to build proper facilities and in most cases we do not have the proper coaching available to us. Many of the countries are considered to be part of the Third World. In the USVI I went through I time period of about 5 years where I had 8 different coaches because when we recruited, they did not stay and live there for a long time and looked at it more as a vacation. For those athletes from third world countries that wish to excell in the sport coming to America is the best chance. Those internationals aren't competing in the US National Championships, just in university (Auburn has had swimmers from places like Trinidad, Bahamas, and Latin America). Some athletes do in turn represent America. Tim Duncan can no longer represent the Virgin Islands, he HAS to represent the US.
Our families and pride remain in our countries and we are grown up with the ideals of our country, however in training with the amazing athletes that represent the US and with the facilities and coaches in the US it makes us more competitive and better in what we love to do.
By
VISwimmer, at 10/19/2006 1:11 PM
I understand where you are coming from VISswimmer, it goes back to one of the things that makes this country great...allowing athletes to come from other countries to train in better conditions. Its kind of like a catch 22 though for us Americans who may be talented atheletes, just need a little work around the edges - and that work is done with a coach; a coach who can really focus and hone in on it using your and their work ethic.
So when our American coaches start to focus on non-American atheletes, who they recruit because they may not need as much attention/focus/work from the coach...someone who is easy to train, and easy to grab wins - that is someting I do not agree with.
I swam on my university swim team, albeit briefly, and we had very few international swimmers, and they took nothing away from our training...they were in our country, at our school, to study.
Not to single out any university, as I am sure it happens in other schools, but its pretty obvious in the case of Auburn, that most of their international athletes are not there for academic purposes.
By
swimphilly78, at 10/19/2006 2:17 PM
p.s. funny how i was just mentioning a move to north carolina to dana yesterday...and that area specifically.
perhaps i will move sooner. then look for a job at the pool. i will then take over the program myself, with the help of coach hansen.
because its that easy. ;)
By
swimphilly78, at 10/19/2006 3:05 PM
Hahaha Smimphilly! In a perfect world it would be that easy! The debate about international swimmers getting their training here is alway a great one that can get really heated. The thing that is important to remember is that the swimmers who end up in the US University system have to be really great swimmers to begin with. The athletes who are really here to get a good education are the ones who make out the most. Swimming affords them the ability to get that education. The school that pads their roster with international or unqualified student athletes during the sports season, whatever the sport, should have their NCAA accreditations pulled. That should be investigated. And if it is proven to be a pattern, they should be stripped of all titles, if any, that were acquired using these methods.
I was thinking earlier about the point that viswimmer made today before I ever read the post about the lack of facilities in some countries and I completely agree with their viewpoints regarding that opinion. I don't know. I think in the realm of education we should educate and train anyone who can reach the academic standards set by those universities.
I guess my next big question mark regarding this elete club is in regards to the athletes I saw at nationals who were competeing as members of USA Swimming but swim for an international team at Olympics. Maybe these are people that have dual citizenships, or family heritage that comes into play when the olympics roll around? I don't know. That is where I would draw the line I guess. I am not good with the United States Olympic Committee Center of Excellence being the place to train someone who may or may not swim for an international team during the Olympics. I hope that made sense.
By
lala, at 10/19/2006 5:14 PM
Hmm just one last comment regarding what swimphilly said... I don't mean to sound rude but I am a very good aquaintance of swimmers such as the Bovell brothers, Jeremy Knowles, and a few others and in our local newspapers they stress the importance of education. George Bovell goes around to different schools in his country and made a point of addressing the importance of his education. He could have been sponsored by companies in his country, but he instead went to university first. If you look at the education systems throughout the Caribbean and Latin America they are usually quite poor and a tertiary education in America or Canada is something many young teenagers hope for. The only swimmer that I know about that stayed for a semester and swam was Cesar Cielo and although it does look sketchy as to why he came, it is not "fair" or appropriate to judge negatively on something we are unsure about. For all we know he could have also had a very hard time with school as he had to perfect his english and attend a very good American university.
By
VISwimmer, at 10/19/2006 6:28 PM
also, the students from countries such as Australia end their school year in november/december and some transfer students would have to start their American university education in the spring semester.
By
VISwimmer, at 10/19/2006 6:30 PM
You don't sound rude at all VISwimmer. That all great information and you made good points.
(And besides lets not forget those Bovell brothers are hot! Could you introduce me?) :D
By
lala, at 10/19/2006 9:11 PM
Huh. That's an odd choice.
By
Verbal, at 10/19/2006 9:11 PM
of course! you can all just make a BHO trip to the Caribbean =)
By
VISwimmer, at 10/19/2006 10:07 PM
hahaha Verbal. You aren't living up to your name. It's good to see you posting and I agree - odd choice. If I were looking to build a new program Marsh wouldn't be my first choice.
VISwimmer - thanks for giving us the other side of the coin so to speak and I didn't find your post rude at all. I think people are especially critical of Marsh for international recruiting because he is one of a few coaches who relies quite heavily on it. And getting back to one of my questions about him, can he develop talent or just recruit it? Did swimmers like Gangloff, Peirsol Jr., Bousquet, Bovell and Hoelzer hold their own or make great leaps forward once going to Auburn? I've heard complaints that he doesn't offer his swimmers a stable and supportive club training environment once they've finished school, so the idea that he's put in the position to run the new USA Swimming Club that's supposed to provide Olympic caliber swimmers a stable and supportive environment strikes me as a little ironic.
By
Michelle, at 10/19/2006 10:25 PM
Mrs. H, what an alarming story. Wow. Did he know who you were when he said it? Silly, silly man.
Well this is all very interesting. It sounds a lot like an official certification program of sorts, that could expand to NBAC, Novaquatics, Longhorn Aquatics, Club Wolverwine, etc... basically establishing training centers that have some USOC and USA Swimming funding. It's a cool concept, if they do it right. I don't know that I think it's *necessary*, but it's interesting and could be beneficial if they don't limit it to Mecklenburg. Which does seem like an odd place to start, if they want to get people excited about it. I know Mecklenburg has a great pre-college club program, but they're not exactly a post-collegiate powerhouse. I can't really tell if this is about developing the next generation of swimmers or maintaining the ones coming out of college. It feels like a bit of an identity crisis. Once again, I find myself wanting to take over USA Swimming. Along with Nike's swim division marketing team.
As for the coach choice, of the obvious candidates, I can't see any others taking it. I can't see Eddie leaving Texas to take this, or Bob so quickly leaving Michigan when he's built a powerhouse team there in just a year. And all the SoCal coaches just did a big switcharoo, so they're not taking it either.
I do like the idea of having a facility resource for the national team, but unless they have multiple locations and coaches involved, I don't think it's ideal for long term ongoing training. Coaching is personal, there's a reason some people choose to train with a guy like Bob and others choose one like Eddie. Different personalities motivate other different personalities. Unless they work this reality into the program, I don't really see the swimmers buying into this themselves, honestly. I see it as a big marketing ploy for Mecklenburg in that case, and not much else.
What I really don't get is what's in this for USOC, that they would fund it without more input from the swimmers themselves. Maybe they figure that if they're going to change the entire Olympic schedule to air swimming during primetime, they'd better win every event? ;-)
By
crackinup, at 10/20/2006 12:42 AM
Upon reflection, did USA Swimming and/or USOC even fund this at all? Or just stick their names on it, to lend credibility? Unclear.
By
crackinup, at 10/20/2006 12:44 AM
John Urbanchek would have been a great choice. I have never heard anyone mention his name without talking of what an incredible person he is. But it sounds more like Marsh will be in charge of age group swimmer all the way to the Olympians. I guess I am still waiting to hear the big plan and mission of this thing and how they are going ot make it all happen. I like Richard Quick at Auburn though. He seems to be a great one too.
By
lala, at 10/20/2006 2:44 AM
Ladies, Ladies,calm down,and take a deep breath. As we analyze the changes in the swimming world. Organizing and opening the the Big Meck in North Carolina. I know it is opening up a lot of discussion in our family with Aunt C., AuntK., Mrs.H and others. Some of you questioned whether the swimmers would attend this new idea. Personally, I think some of the advantages such as the under water cameras etc. are already in use in Olympic Complex in Colorado Springs. I doubt whether the BIG MECK would attract swimmers such as Natalie Coughlin, Jason Lezak and other swimmers on the West Coast. Also, Michael Phelps, and all who are training in Club Wolverine in Michigan with Bob Bowman. The goes for the Texas Trio who all have their own homes in Austin and consider Austin their home. As far as Dave Marsh the coach at AUBURN INTERNATIONAL, we don't know if he was Mark Schubert's first choice. As far as the recruiting that is taking place at AUBURN INTERNATIONAL,when I attended 4 NCAA Championships there were some foreign swimmers on the Pacific Coast and Southwest state teams, maybe not as many as
AUBURN INTERNATIONAL. But it is a little stretch the A.I. had some foreign freshmen swimmers who were 25 years old. You can notice in the Championship programs they list the NCAA Championship records and the American records.
The American records can ONLY be held by american swimmers.
We could get a clearer picture if we could hear from our expert "Tim the Swimmer".What he would do with his swimming career? Would he stay in Michigan with Bob Bowman or would he to N.C.and the BIG MECK.
Let's hear from you Tim. So calm down ladies and take a deep breath.
Gpop
By
gmom, at 10/20/2006 7:41 PM
Haha gpop thanks for getting me to post! This ones a toughie though...If I would be put in that situation, I'd definately stay with the club i'd been with. Personally, Ive always been around the small club dynamic where everyone is pretty close and there are good swimmer/coach realationships, and I dont think it is worth it to sacrafice those things just to have a few more opprotunites. When you hear swimmers talk about what's important, 9 times out of 10 they will say a good relationship with your coach...I dont think i've ever heard of one saying something about having the latest technologies. Sure they're helpful, but they shouldn't be the only thing that attracts you somewhere. I hope that answers the question!
By
Timtheswimmer, at 10/20/2006 9:13 PM
hmmm. well, I can't say I really know enough to have an opinion, but its really fun listening to all this debate. :)
By
Nicole A., at 10/21/2006 12:27 AM
25 year old international freshmen, I love it. You gotta give Marsh credit for ingenuity, if he pulled that off within the NCAA rules. Unethical, perhaps, but if he wasn't busted for it, that's a testament to the NCAA as much as him.
Must agree with what Timmay said. And maybe I am naive or jaded, but we had underwater swimming cameras when I was 10 years old at the community college my club team trained at. Cool stuff, but it doesn't seem like modern technology to me. Though one would hope they have more angles and fancy recording equipment at an Olympic training center, two decades later.
FYI, for those in the know, it hit me this morning that I've been confusing Mercersburg and Mecklenburg. Last night I was all, "I swear that team was in Pennsylvania." LOL.
By
crackinup, at 10/21/2006 12:47 AM
I know gpop told me to take and deep breath.. and I did, but now I have another thought that came up. Which may be a little unrelated to this topic. How good is it to keep one swimmer with the same coach his whole life? Look at what amazing things these club coaches do to build a strong foundation in a swimmer. They teach the basics and create the athlete. They take them to the level of greatness sometimes. Like Brendan's club coach Charlie. Or Bob for Michael Phelps or Ryan's or Katie Hoff's of Kate Ziegler's. But Brendan and Ryan both moved on to a new coach who was able to make some tangible improvements in their swimming. So I have to ask what would happen if Michael or Kate or Katie were to seriously train with a new coach. Since they all went pro so young and seem to have moved to where their coaches are going or vise versa, missing out on college swimming and the college coach. I wonder if they are getting the tweaking that new set of eyes can give them. Or if they are just being taken as far as their original mentor can take them.
By
lala, at 10/21/2006 11:02 AM
Gpop is a treasure. I just had to say that. His post made me smile. :)
By
Dana Cara, at 10/21/2006 9:56 PM
Interesting thoughts lala. I don't know if this will help at all, but I might as well put my two cents in. :) I'm a dancer, not a swimmer, and I've been with the same studio since I started dancing five years ago. When the new school year started I considered changing to a "better" studio in my area. After I thought about it a little bit, I realized there was no way I could leave my current studio--it has done too much for me to just up and leave. If I choose to leave, I would probably make more improvments because of harder classes, but my studio works just fine. My teachers know my body, what I need to improve on, what I tend to do that could potentially injure myself.
During the summers I go to workshops and get the perspective of other teachers. While it's up to me to remember what they say and apply it to my technique (without the reminding of my regular teachers) I find it very helpful and insightful. Do swimmers ever do anything like that? Trade coaches for a few weeks?
By
Nicole A., at 10/21/2006 11:02 PM
I totally get what you are saying Nicole A. That makes perfect sense. If you are continuing to study with other instructors and bringing that technique home with you, that is fantastic and I am all for loyalty. But unless you are training with an elite company or are part of the greatest ballet company in the world, I can't help but think that there is someone who could be taking the strong skills you already have and making them sharper. Getting you into your dream company. But I wonder if the training schedule allows these swimmers to really get away from their regular coach long enough for another elite coach to really get a chance to look at them. But then again Kate, Michael and Katie are the best there is in their respective strokes. And if it aint broke, why fix it? So thanks for putting it in terms I can understand Nicole. I know a ton of dancers who really do improve in workshops.
By
lala, at 10/23/2006 12:29 AM
Nicole A. and Lala in answer to your questions...Yes. Elite swimmers do get a chance to have other caoches look at them. Whenever they are on a World Team, Pan Pac Team, or Olympic Team and they are training under another Head coach he/she can give them advice. Bren has many times learned things from other coaches that way. He changed his start at Worlds I think in 2000. I forget who was the head coach at the time.
By
Mrs. H, at 10/23/2006 10:08 AM
Lala, I think there are definitely people out there who could make me a stronger dancer. However, I know I get plenty of corrections from my current teachers. I have a long way to go before I “out grow” my current teachers and need a higher level of training. But as far as the swimmers go, Kate, Michael, and Katie already are the best in the world. Therefore, couldn’t we presume that they have the best coaches? Or at least, the best coaches to meet their specific needs? If they already have the best coaches, they can’t upgrade to a better one, correct? So if they were to go to this facility, might their technique weaken?
By
Nicole A., at 10/23/2006 9:32 PM
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